What I find a little off-putting about gentle parenting is the parent’s suppression of their own natural reactions to the kid. I mean, of course you have to exercise self-control and be the bigger person. But this can shade over into a kind of fake neutrality, for the sake of not having conflict or expressing robust judgments about the kid’s behavior. This would seem to flatten the moral terrain. I think Marilyn’s point is that this flattening is a deprivation. The kid can probably sense that there is indeed a vertical dimension, and knows he is being a jerk, so the parent’s hyper-controlled (and, it must be said, WASPy), non-emotive, rationalist response teaches a kind of emotional falseness that happens to line up with denying the existence of an objective order of value.. As though the behavior is to be judged in purely functional terms — is it adaptive and socially appropriate? Will it get me what I want, or won’t it? Doesn’t that teach a kind of cynicism, on the one hand, and too much attunement to “the appropriate” on the other? The kid becomes more pliable to shifting social norms, without firm ground to stand on.
We were in danger of making some of these mistakes with our daughter, including our attendance at a Unitarian church where she went to Sunday school. Until one day she complained to us that she didn't see much value in the school's constant, God-free, gentle injunction to be a nice person. She thought there should somehow be more to a religion than that.
Has 'Bing' made it to the States at any point? It's a TV programme for little kids that is all about the 'gentle parenting' ethos. I've always found there to be something deeply passive aggressive about it, and the movement it represents. Every single episode is really an extended mini-lecture on why punishment is bad and why children should just have things gently and reasonably explained to them. It is impossible to watch it without feeling as though one is being accused of being a bad parent for losing one's temper every now and then. Cheap and easy access to moral superiority explains a lot of the concept's success across the piece, I think.
The authoritative, “No!” is an art that can be developed. It begins with the confidence that you know more than the kid and enough interest in his well being to say it. It can be spoken without anger but with gravitas. My kids are grown, married, and have kids of their own. They seem to have survived well enough.
Our first few days back home after our long flight from Seoul with our fussy Korean baby boy were, well, challenging, to say the least. We were new parents and like most new parents trying to figure things out on the fly. All our new son, Sam, knew was that we weren't the people he'd spent his first five months of life with. Sights, sounds, smells and so on were all different for him. We were doing our best, but it wasn't good enough. That's when a friend told us to give swaddling a try when Sam was fussy. They said that's what his Korean foster mother would have done. So, we gave it a try. My wife wrapped him in a blanket, tight enough to restrict his movements. And that did the trick. Swaddling was reassuring and comforting for him. I like to think it gave him a sense of security that he was missing, something cuddling by a couple of strangers, his new parents, couldn't provide. In any case, I wonder if gentle parenting is a bit like trying to raise kids without swaddling. Boundaries, consequences to bad actions, hard edges (this is okay .... this is not) provide a sense of reassurance, security and demonstrable love that all kids crave. Our three Korean kids, Sam and his sister, Marieka and brother Luke, (all grown ups now) tell us their friends said my wife and I were hard asses. When we asked them what they thought, they laughed and nodded but were quick to thank us for how we raised them. Our daughter once summarized it best when she said, "we always knew we were loved."
Do not let upspeaking libs with their egomaniac kids lay exclusive claim to gentle parenting. The Christian dad knows he is his kids’ first and most immediate earthly image of the Father, who is not just a strict scold, but who (through various means) draws near to his children and heals our wounds in intimate ways, even and especially when we’ve been bad (which is pretty much always). I say this as someone who loses it on his kids too often.
Wonderful....I was going to say that modern parents are not into the punishment thing because, among other things, it's just hard and unpleasant, but, actually, the gentle persuasion parenting is actually harder and more unpleasant.... I've seen it up close and personal and in action
Huh. I'm one of 5 and grew up homeschooled - peers/friends were typically one of 6 or more. I then worked in Manhattan childcare (met a lot of nannies). My observation is that beyond a certain minimal point, "parenting" as a set of behaviors simply doesn't matter. Kids dispositions are set pretty early!
The kids who were punished the most became extraordinarily good liars, mostly- not their parents' intent, but putting ideology over relationship usually backfires. Rigidity, clinging to principles, obsession with "family values" are also red flags; the happiest kids had flexible loving parents who didn't get too involved with their personal lives. My mom practiced in her words "benign neglect" and it served us quite well. They tried spanking for a while but as you might guess, we started lying to them so they had to stop. She was big on natural consequences. "F" around and find out - we usually found out and we stopped doing whatever dumb thing we were doing.
N of 2 - my husband and his sister were gentle parented (the term back then was permissive) he's a lawyer, she's a high achieving VP. Both interesting dynamic people, lots of hobbies... Neither punished a day in their lives. I do believe they'd be equally interesting if they had been, though, that's kind of the point.
I have some trouble judging the worth of the likes of "deep souls" vs "shallow souls", and not sure what i might best understand by "corrupted desires"?
Read the article on Unherd and I hope that it's read by many new parents and parents-to-be. Hope you have a Merry Christmas and a beautiful start to 2025.
What I find a little off-putting about gentle parenting is the parent’s suppression of their own natural reactions to the kid. I mean, of course you have to exercise self-control and be the bigger person. But this can shade over into a kind of fake neutrality, for the sake of not having conflict or expressing robust judgments about the kid’s behavior. This would seem to flatten the moral terrain. I think Marilyn’s point is that this flattening is a deprivation. The kid can probably sense that there is indeed a vertical dimension, and knows he is being a jerk, so the parent’s hyper-controlled (and, it must be said, WASPy), non-emotive, rationalist response teaches a kind of emotional falseness that happens to line up with denying the existence of an objective order of value.. As though the behavior is to be judged in purely functional terms — is it adaptive and socially appropriate? Will it get me what I want, or won’t it? Doesn’t that teach a kind of cynicism, on the one hand, and too much attunement to “the appropriate” on the other? The kid becomes more pliable to shifting social norms, without firm ground to stand on.
(Typed on a phone from seat 12c.)
We were in danger of making some of these mistakes with our daughter, including our attendance at a Unitarian church where she went to Sunday school. Until one day she complained to us that she didn't see much value in the school's constant, God-free, gentle injunction to be a nice person. She thought there should somehow be more to a religion than that.
Has 'Bing' made it to the States at any point? It's a TV programme for little kids that is all about the 'gentle parenting' ethos. I've always found there to be something deeply passive aggressive about it, and the movement it represents. Every single episode is really an extended mini-lecture on why punishment is bad and why children should just have things gently and reasonably explained to them. It is impossible to watch it without feeling as though one is being accused of being a bad parent for losing one's temper every now and then. Cheap and easy access to moral superiority explains a lot of the concept's success across the piece, I think.
The authoritative, “No!” is an art that can be developed. It begins with the confidence that you know more than the kid and enough interest in his well being to say it. It can be spoken without anger but with gravitas. My kids are grown, married, and have kids of their own. They seem to have survived well enough.
Our first few days back home after our long flight from Seoul with our fussy Korean baby boy were, well, challenging, to say the least. We were new parents and like most new parents trying to figure things out on the fly. All our new son, Sam, knew was that we weren't the people he'd spent his first five months of life with. Sights, sounds, smells and so on were all different for him. We were doing our best, but it wasn't good enough. That's when a friend told us to give swaddling a try when Sam was fussy. They said that's what his Korean foster mother would have done. So, we gave it a try. My wife wrapped him in a blanket, tight enough to restrict his movements. And that did the trick. Swaddling was reassuring and comforting for him. I like to think it gave him a sense of security that he was missing, something cuddling by a couple of strangers, his new parents, couldn't provide. In any case, I wonder if gentle parenting is a bit like trying to raise kids without swaddling. Boundaries, consequences to bad actions, hard edges (this is okay .... this is not) provide a sense of reassurance, security and demonstrable love that all kids crave. Our three Korean kids, Sam and his sister, Marieka and brother Luke, (all grown ups now) tell us their friends said my wife and I were hard asses. When we asked them what they thought, they laughed and nodded but were quick to thank us for how we raised them. Our daughter once summarized it best when she said, "we always knew we were loved."
Do not let upspeaking libs with their egomaniac kids lay exclusive claim to gentle parenting. The Christian dad knows he is his kids’ first and most immediate earthly image of the Father, who is not just a strict scold, but who (through various means) draws near to his children and heals our wounds in intimate ways, even and especially when we’ve been bad (which is pretty much always). I say this as someone who loses it on his kids too often.
Wonderful....I was going to say that modern parents are not into the punishment thing because, among other things, it's just hard and unpleasant, but, actually, the gentle persuasion parenting is actually harder and more unpleasant.... I've seen it up close and personal and in action
Huh. I'm one of 5 and grew up homeschooled - peers/friends were typically one of 6 or more. I then worked in Manhattan childcare (met a lot of nannies). My observation is that beyond a certain minimal point, "parenting" as a set of behaviors simply doesn't matter. Kids dispositions are set pretty early!
The kids who were punished the most became extraordinarily good liars, mostly- not their parents' intent, but putting ideology over relationship usually backfires. Rigidity, clinging to principles, obsession with "family values" are also red flags; the happiest kids had flexible loving parents who didn't get too involved with their personal lives. My mom practiced in her words "benign neglect" and it served us quite well. They tried spanking for a while but as you might guess, we started lying to them so they had to stop. She was big on natural consequences. "F" around and find out - we usually found out and we stopped doing whatever dumb thing we were doing.
N of 2 - my husband and his sister were gentle parented (the term back then was permissive) he's a lawyer, she's a high achieving VP. Both interesting dynamic people, lots of hobbies... Neither punished a day in their lives. I do believe they'd be equally interesting if they had been, though, that's kind of the point.
"Gentle parenting" is matriarchy: guilt, gaslighting, and emotional manipulation
"Strict parenting" is patriarchy: punishment, and orders, and emotional distancing
I have some trouble judging the worth of the likes of "deep souls" vs "shallow souls", and not sure what i might best understand by "corrupted desires"?
Read the article on Unherd and I hope that it's read by many new parents and parents-to-be. Hope you have a Merry Christmas and a beautiful start to 2025.
Have a relaxing holiday. I look forward to your work in the new year.